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	<title>Comments on: Semis and Semi Equipment Overcapacity Not a Short Term Issue</title>
	<link>http://stockmarketbeat.com/blog1/2007/02/21/semis-and-semi-equipment-overcapacity-not-a-short-term-issue/</link>
	<description>Our beat: The stock market. Our job: Beat it.</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 16 Oct 2008 06:41:58 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: AMD: Knee-Jerk Rally on AMD&#8217;s Earnings Warning Should Fade - Stock Market Beat - Our beat: The stock market. Our job: Beat it.</title>
		<link>http://stockmarketbeat.com/blog1/2007/02/21/semis-and-semi-equipment-overcapacity-not-a-short-term-issue/#comment-23765</link>
		<author>AMD: Knee-Jerk Rally on AMD&#8217;s Earnings Warning Should Fade - Stock Market Beat - Our beat: The stock market. Our job: Beat it.</author>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Apr 2007 20:35:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://stockmarketbeat.com/blog1/2007/02/21/semis-and-semi-equipment-overcapacity-not-a-short-term-issue/#comment-23765</guid>
		<description>[...] For all the people who complained about our bearish semiconductor outlook, saying things like &#8220;semiconductor companies can’t add new capacity instantly, so they spend their way through most downturns in preparations for the upswings. ’cause it’s always worked before,&#8221; perhaps this press release will provide some insight. AMD (AMD) today announced it expects to report revenue of approximately $1.225 billion in the quarter ending March 31, 2007. Revenues declined sharply quarter-over-quarter for the Computing Solutions segment, primarily due to lower overall average selling prices and significantly lower unit sales, especially in the resale channel. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] For all the people who complained about our bearish semiconductor outlook, saying things like &#8220;semiconductor companies can’t add new capacity instantly, so they spend their way through most downturns in preparations for the upswings. ’cause it’s always worked before,&#8221; perhaps this press release will provide some insight. AMD (<a href="http://stockmarketbeat.com/blog1/category/tech/semis/amd/">AMD</a> - <a href=http://stockmarketbeat.ar.wilink.com/?link=amd">Annual Report</a>) today announced it expects to report revenue of approximately $1.225 billion in the quarter ending March 31, 2007. Revenues declined sharply quarter-over-quarter for the Computing Solutions segment, primarily due to lower overall average selling prices and significantly lower unit sales, especially in the resale channel. [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: MRVL: Marvell Technology Investors Believe No News is Good News - Stock Market Beat - Our beat is the stock market. Our job is to beat it.</title>
		<link>http://stockmarketbeat.com/blog1/2007/02/21/semis-and-semi-equipment-overcapacity-not-a-short-term-issue/#comment-16186</link>
		<author>MRVL: Marvell Technology Investors Believe No News is Good News - Stock Market Beat - Our beat is the stock market. Our job is to beat it.</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Feb 2007 04:45:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://stockmarketbeat.com/blog1/2007/02/21/semis-and-semi-equipment-overcapacity-not-a-short-term-issue/#comment-16186</guid>
		<description>[...] We don&#8217;t know how they deduce this, nor whether the channel inventories so mentioned will have any bearing on Marvel&#8217;s own inventory levels and sales potential. But the mere hint that inventories are being reduced, despite the fact that all signs suggest otherwise, was enough to spark a rally. At least for one night.   The author may hold a position in the securities discussed. The author's current holdings are as follows: Long: Union Pacific (UNP) put options; Air Products (APD) put options; Bookham (BKHM; Ballard Power (BLDP); Syntax Brillian (BRLC); CMGI (CMGI); Genentech (DNA); Ion Media Networks (ION); Three Five Systems (TFS); IShares Japan (EWJ); StreetTracks Gold (GLD); Starbucks (SBUX); U.S. Oil Fund (USO); Plantronics (PLT) call options; Short: Landstar (LSTR) put options; Plantronics (PLT) put options; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] We don&#8217;t know how they deduce this, nor whether the channel inventories so mentioned will have any bearing on Marvel&#8217;s own inventory levels and sales potential. But the mere hint that inventories are being reduced, despite the fact that all signs suggest otherwise, was enough to spark a rally. At least for one night.   The author may hold a position in the securities discussed. The author&#8217;s current holdings are as follows: Long: Union Pacific (UNP) put options; Air Products (APD) put options; Bookham (BKHM; Ballard Power (BLDP); Syntax Brillian (BRLC); CMGI (CMGI); Genentech (<a href="http://stockmarketbeat.com/blog1/category/healthcare/dna/">DNA</a> - <a href=http://stockmarketbeat.ar.wilink.com/?link=dna">Annual Report</a>; Ion Media Networks (ION); Three Five Systems (TFS); IShares Japan (EWJ); StreetTracks Gold (GLD); Starbucks (SBUX); U.S. Oil Fund (USO); Plantronics (PLT) call options; Short: Landstar (<a href="http://stockmarketbeat.com/blog1/category/transports/lstr/">LSTR</a> - <a href="http://stockmarketbeat.ar.wilink.com/?link=lstr">Annual Report</a>) put options; Plantronics (PLT) put options; [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: Trent</title>
		<link>http://stockmarketbeat.com/blog1/2007/02/21/semis-and-semi-equipment-overcapacity-not-a-short-term-issue/#comment-15512</link>
		<author>Trent</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Feb 2007 18:14:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://stockmarketbeat.com/blog1/2007/02/21/semis-and-semi-equipment-overcapacity-not-a-short-term-issue/#comment-15512</guid>
		<description>reinharden -

Thanks for your comments. You bring up very important points. So important, in fact, that I wrote a &lt;a href="http://stockmarketbeat.com/blog1/2007/02/22/end-demand-for-semiconductors/" rel="nofollow"&gt;new post&lt;/a&gt; to discuss them in greater detail.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>reinharden -</p>
<p>Thanks for your comments. You bring up very important points. So important, in fact, that I wrote a <a href="http://stockmarketbeat.com/blog1/2007/02/22/end-demand-for-semiconductors/" rel="nofollow">new post</a> to discuss them in greater detail.</p>
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		<title>By: End Demand for Semiconductors - Stock Market Beat - Our beat is the stock market. Our job is to beat it.</title>
		<link>http://stockmarketbeat.com/blog1/2007/02/21/semis-and-semi-equipment-overcapacity-not-a-short-term-issue/#comment-15511</link>
		<author>End Demand for Semiconductors - Stock Market Beat - Our beat is the stock market. Our job is to beat it.</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Feb 2007 18:12:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://stockmarketbeat.com/blog1/2007/02/21/semis-and-semi-equipment-overcapacity-not-a-short-term-issue/#comment-15511</guid>
		<description>[...] Semis and Semi Equipment Overcapacity Not a Short Term Issue [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] Semis and Semi Equipment Overcapacity Not a Short Term Issue [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: reinharden</title>
		<link>http://stockmarketbeat.com/blog1/2007/02/21/semis-and-semi-equipment-overcapacity-not-a-short-term-issue/#comment-15502</link>
		<author>reinharden</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Feb 2007 16:55:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://stockmarketbeat.com/blog1/2007/02/21/semis-and-semi-equipment-overcapacity-not-a-short-term-issue/#comment-15502</guid>
		<description>Your premise that "demand has risen pretty steadily over time" only holds true for fairly variable values of "pretty steadily" and neglects entirely the lessons of the last decade.

For example, 2001, 2002, 2003, and 2004 were all smaller years than 2000.  Demand fluctuated.  Hell, from 2000 to 2001 it cratered.

Granted, over a 10 year perspective, we've seen consistent growth decade to decade.  But we have seen occasional decreases in demand and we've always seen changes in the demand mix.

For example, INTC was the #10 semi company in 1987, but #1 by 1992.  AMD was #15 in 2005, but #7 in 2006.  AMD could have been higher in 2006; however, they were supply constrained because they didn't have enough capacity.


The semiconductor market isn't a seamless whole.  For example, if INTC moves to 300 mm platters and 45 nm processes, they've just increased their capacity/reduced their cost by a factor of 4.  AMD won't be able to effectively compete with 200 mm platters and 65 nm processes if their cost is 4 times higher.

Not to mention that INTC's parts will likely go faster at 45 nm *and* use less power which means that they'll be able to charge premium prices.  Or, as they're doing now (before they even finish the 45 nm migration), charge normal prices and deny AMD the ability to build and equip a new fab without seeking outside financial assistance.


Standing pat doesn't win success in the semiconductor market.  Companies that hop off the treadmill pretty much are destined to long-term obsolescence.


By the by, at least as recently as 2004, many companies considered 85% to 87% utilization as full capacity, 90%+ as supply constrained, and 95%+ as critical shortages.  So with utilization only now falling into the historic full capacity range and with most people calling for a bottom this quarter'sh, it only makes sense to bring capacity online now to ensure that it'll be ready for next year.


I agree that the whole thing is anti-intuitive and in some ways capex spending is a house of cards.

But if you don't spend and your neighbor does and the demand is there, you're done.  And unless you can spend enough to catch the next cycle, you're moving several steps down the Top 25 semiconductor list.  And in this market, volume is power.  So better to overspend and drown you and your neighbors in an oversupply problem than to underspend and let your neighbors thrive in an shortage scenario while you do without.

reinharden</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your premise that &#8220;demand has risen pretty steadily over time&#8221; only holds true for fairly variable values of &#8220;pretty steadily&#8221; and neglects entirely the lessons of the last decade.</p>
<p>For example, 2001, 2002, 2003, and 2004 were all smaller years than 2000.  Demand fluctuated.  Hell, from 2000 to 2001 it cratered.</p>
<p>Granted, over a 10 year perspective, we&#8217;ve seen consistent growth decade to decade.  But we have seen occasional decreases in demand and we&#8217;ve always seen changes in the demand mix.</p>
<p>For example, INTC was the #10 semi company in 1987, but #1 by 1992.  AMD was #15 in 2005, but #7 in 2006.  AMD could have been higher in 2006; however, they were supply constrained because they didn&#8217;t have enough capacity.</p>
<p>The semiconductor market isn&#8217;t a seamless whole.  For example, if INTC moves to 300 mm platters and 45 nm processes, they&#8217;ve just increased their capacity/reduced their cost by a factor of 4.  AMD won&#8217;t be able to effectively compete with 200 mm platters and 65 nm processes if their cost is 4 times higher.</p>
<p>Not to mention that INTC&#8217;s parts will likely go faster at 45 nm *and* use less power which means that they&#8217;ll be able to charge premium prices.  Or, as they&#8217;re doing now (before they even finish the 45 nm migration), charge normal prices and deny AMD the ability to build and equip a new fab without seeking outside financial assistance.</p>
<p>Standing pat doesn&#8217;t win success in the semiconductor market.  Companies that hop off the treadmill pretty much are destined to long-term obsolescence.</p>
<p>By the by, at least as recently as 2004, many companies considered 85% to 87% utilization as full capacity, 90%+ as supply constrained, and 95%+ as critical shortages.  So with utilization only now falling into the historic full capacity range and with most people calling for a bottom this quarter&#8217;sh, it only makes sense to bring capacity online now to ensure that it&#8217;ll be ready for next year.</p>
<p>I agree that the whole thing is anti-intuitive and in some ways capex spending is a house of cards.</p>
<p>But if you don&#8217;t spend and your neighbor does and the demand is there, you&#8217;re done.  And unless you can spend enough to catch the next cycle, you&#8217;re moving several steps down the Top 25 semiconductor list.  And in this market, volume is power.  So better to overspend and drown you and your neighbors in an oversupply problem than to underspend and let your neighbors thrive in an shortage scenario while you do without.</p>
<p>reinharden</p>
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		<title>By: 2007 February 23 - Stock Market Beat - Our beat is the stock market. Our job is to beat it.</title>
		<link>http://stockmarketbeat.com/blog1/2007/02/21/semis-and-semi-equipment-overcapacity-not-a-short-term-issue/#comment-15493</link>
		<author>2007 February 23 - Stock Market Beat - Our beat is the stock market. Our job is to beat it.</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Feb 2007 15:56:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://stockmarketbeat.com/blog1/2007/02/21/semis-and-semi-equipment-overcapacity-not-a-short-term-issue/#comment-15493</guid>
		<description>[...] Semis and Semi Equipment Overcapacity Not a Short Term Issue [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] Semis and Semi Equipment Overcapacity Not a Short Term Issue [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: Trent</title>
		<link>http://stockmarketbeat.com/blog1/2007/02/21/semis-and-semi-equipment-overcapacity-not-a-short-term-issue/#comment-15492</link>
		<author>Trent</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Feb 2007 15:51:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://stockmarketbeat.com/blog1/2007/02/21/semis-and-semi-equipment-overcapacity-not-a-short-term-issue/#comment-15492</guid>
		<description>It is the semi makers who need some hindsight. I know what has happened to the stocks in every cyclical downturn. The end demand has risen pretty steadily over time - it is the capacity that fluctuates wildly and leads to booms and busts.

If the semi makers consistently invested in 10% growth industry-wide there would be no more cycles and I would no longer have to raise the alarm when they start acting stupid. They would always have on order the equipment they would need just when they start to need it.

But I don't think I have to worry. They'll continue to be stupid and I'll continue to be able to make money trading around their supply issues.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is the semi makers who need some hindsight. I know what has happened to the stocks in every cyclical downturn. The end demand has risen pretty steadily over time - it is the capacity that fluctuates wildly and leads to booms and busts.</p>
<p>If the semi makers consistently invested in 10% growth industry-wide there would be no more cycles and I would no longer have to raise the alarm when they start acting stupid. They would always have on order the equipment they would need just when they start to need it.</p>
<p>But I don&#8217;t think I have to worry. They&#8217;ll continue to be stupid and I&#8217;ll continue to be able to make money trading around their supply issues.</p>
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		<title>By: reinharden</title>
		<link>http://stockmarketbeat.com/blog1/2007/02/21/semis-and-semi-equipment-overcapacity-not-a-short-term-issue/#comment-15486</link>
		<author>reinharden</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Feb 2007 14:29:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://stockmarketbeat.com/blog1/2007/02/21/semis-and-semi-equipment-overcapacity-not-a-short-term-issue/#comment-15486</guid>
		<description>Semiconductors have always gone through a boom/bust cycle of oversupply/overdemand.

If you don't overbuild during the period of oversupply, then you don't benefit during the period of overdemand.

Is it totally rational?  Perhaps not.  But unless every semi company got rational at the same time, you'd set your own up for bankruptcy by failing to play nice with the other kids.

Anyway, you've also got to keep in mind that you've got to order semiconductor equipment at least 6 months to 18 months ahead of when you're going to get it delivered and add another 6 months to 12 months to get it installed and the problems with your processes resolved.  Which means that you're ordering equipment now in the hopes that you'll need it two or three years from now.


Anyway, semiconductor companies can't add new capacity instantly, so they spend their way through most downturns in preparations for the upswings.  'cause it's always worked before.

Maybe it won't one of these times.  But I think this beating the drum of yours is pretty alarmist.  And for someone who's apparently been an analyst since 1996 seemingly without the benefit of hindsight.

reinharden</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Semiconductors have always gone through a boom/bust cycle of oversupply/overdemand.</p>
<p>If you don&#8217;t overbuild during the period of oversupply, then you don&#8217;t benefit during the period of overdemand.</p>
<p>Is it totally rational?  Perhaps not.  But unless every semi company got rational at the same time, you&#8217;d set your own up for bankruptcy by failing to play nice with the other kids.</p>
<p>Anyway, you&#8217;ve also got to keep in mind that you&#8217;ve got to order semiconductor equipment at least 6 months to 18 months ahead of when you&#8217;re going to get it delivered and add another 6 months to 12 months to get it installed and the problems with your processes resolved.  Which means that you&#8217;re ordering equipment now in the hopes that you&#8217;ll need it two or three years from now.</p>
<p>Anyway, semiconductor companies can&#8217;t add new capacity instantly, so they spend their way through most downturns in preparations for the upswings.  &#8217;cause it&#8217;s always worked before.</p>
<p>Maybe it won&#8217;t one of these times.  But I think this beating the drum of yours is pretty alarmist.  And for someone who&#8217;s apparently been an analyst since 1996 seemingly without the benefit of hindsight.</p>
<p>reinharden</p>
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		<title>By: ADI: Analog Devices Investors Sigh In Relief? - Stock Market Beat - Our beat is the stock market. Our job is to beat it.</title>
		<link>http://stockmarketbeat.com/blog1/2007/02/21/semis-and-semi-equipment-overcapacity-not-a-short-term-issue/#comment-15409</link>
		<author>ADI: Analog Devices Investors Sigh In Relief? - Stock Market Beat - Our beat is the stock market. Our job is to beat it.</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Feb 2007 02:55:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://stockmarketbeat.com/blog1/2007/02/21/semis-and-semi-equipment-overcapacity-not-a-short-term-issue/#comment-15409</guid>
		<description>[...] Semis and Semi Equipment Overcapacity Not a Short Term Issue [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] Semis and Semi Equipment Overcapacity Not a Short Term Issue [&#8230;]</p>
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